establishing a dictatorship by means of Fascism or a dictatorship through the instrumentality of the proletariat, or a dictatorship predicated in part on racial and religious hatreds, have no place in this country.
Testimony of Maj. Gen. S. D. Butler (Retired)
(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.)
The CHAIRMAN. General, you are a retired Commandant of the Marine Corps?
General BUTLER. No, I was never Commandant.
The CHAIRMAN. You were in the Army how long?
General BUTLER. I was in the Marine Corps 33 years and 4 months on the active list.
The CHAIRMAN. As I remember, you are a Congressional Medal of Honor man; received the Congressional Medal of Honor on two occasions?
General BUTLER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. General, you know what the purpose of your visit here is today?
General BUTLER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Without my asking you any further questions, will you just go ahead and tell in your own way all that you know about an attempted Fascist movement in this country?
General BUTLER. May I preface my remarks by saying, sir, that I have one interest in all of this, and that is to try to do my best to see that a democracy is maintained in this country.
The CHAIRMAN. Nobody who has either read about or known about General Butler would have anything but that understanding.
General BUTLER. It is nice of you to say that, sir.
But that is my only interest.
I think I had probably better go back and give you the background. This has been going on for a year and a half. Along—I think it must have been about the 1st of July 1933, two men came to see me. First there was a telephone message from Washington, from a man who I did not know well. His first name was Jack. He was an American Legionnaire, but I cannot remember his last name—cannot recall it now accurately. Anyhow, he asked me if I would receive 2 soldiers—2 veterans—
If they called on me that afternoon. I said I would.
About 5 hours later a Packard limousine came up into my yard and 2 men got out. This limousine was driven by a chauffeur. They came into the house and introduced themselves. One said his name was Bill Doyle, who was then the department commander of the Legion in Massachusetts. The other said his name was Jerry MacGuire.
The CHAIRMAN. Where did MacGuire come from?
General BUTLER. MacGuire said he had been State commander the year before of the department of Connecticut and was then living in Connecticut. Doyle was living in Massachusetts.
The CHAIRMAN. Had you met either of these men before?
General BUTLER. Never had seen them before, as I recollect. I might have done so; but as far as my impression then was, they were absolute strangers. The substance of the conversation, which lasted about 2 hours, was this: That they were very desirous of unseating the royal family in control of the American Legion, at the convention to be held in Chicago, and very anxious to have me take part in it. They said that they were not in sympathy with the then administration—that is, the present administration’s treatment of the soldiers.
They presented to me rather a confused picture, and I could not make up my mind exactly what they wanted me to do or what their objective was, but it had something to do with weakening the influence of the administration with the soldiers.
They asked me to go to the convention, and I said I did not want to go—that I had not been invited and did not care anything about going.
Then MacGuire said that he was the chairman of the distinguished-guest committee of the American Legion, on Louis Johnson’s staff; that Louis Johnson had, at MacGuire’s suggestion, put my name down to be invited as a distinguished guest of the Chicago convention.
They said, “We represent the plain soldiers, and we want you to come to this convention.” They said, “We want you to come there and stampede the convention in a speech and help us in our fight to dislodge the royal family.”
The CHAIRMAN. When you say you smelled a rat, you mean you had an idea that they were not telling the truth?
General BUTLER. I could not reconcile and from the very beginning I was never able to reconcile their desire to serve the ordinary man in the ranks, with their other aims. They did not seem to be the same. It looked to me as if they were trying to embarrass the administration in some way. They had not gone far enough yet but I could not reconcile the two objectives; they seemed to be diametrically opposed. One was to embarrass the administration of the American Legion, when I did not want to go anyhow, and the other object will appear here in a little while. I do not know that at that moment I had formed any particular opinion. I was just fishing to see what they had in mind. So many queer people come to my house all the time and I like to feel them all out.
Finally they said, “Now, we have arranged a way for you to come to this convention.”
I said, “How is that, without being invited?”
They said, “Well, you are to come as a delegate from Hawaii.”
I said, “I do not live in Hawaii.”
“Well, it does not make any difference. There is to be no delegate from one of the American Legion posts there in Honolulu, and we have arranged to have you appointed by cable, by radio, to represent them at the convention. You will be a delegate.”
I said, “Yes; but I will not go in the back door.”
They said, “That will not be the back door. You must come.”
I said, “No; I will not do this.”
“Well,” they said, “are you in sympathy with unhorsing the royal family?”
I said, “Yes; because they have been selling out the common soldier in this Legion for years. These fellows have been getting political plums and jobs and cheating the enlisted man in the Army, and I am for putting them out. But I cannot do it by going in through the back door.”
“Well,” they said, “we are going to get them out. We will arrange this.”
That was all that happened the first day, as I recollect it. There were several days of it, and I will tell you everything that happened, but I cannot check it with the specific days. So they went away. Two or three days later, they came back in the same car, both together, the second time. Doyle dropped out of the picture, he appeared only twice.
The CHAIRMAN. What was the second talk?
General BUTLER. The substance of the second talk was this, that they had given up this delegate idea, and I was to get two or three hundred legionnaires from around that part of the country and bring them on a special train to Chicago with me; that they would sit around in the audience, be planted here and there, and I was to be nothing but an ordinary legionnaire, going to my own convention as an onlooker; not as a participant at all. I was to appear in the gallery. These planted fellows were to begin to cheer and start a stampede and yell for a speech. Then I was to go to the platform and make a speech. I said, “Make a speech about what?”
“Oh,” they said, “we have one here.”
This conversation lasted a couple of hours, but this is the substance of it. They pulled out this speech. They said, “We will leave it here with you to read over, and you see if you can get these fellows to come.”
I said, “Listen. These friends of mine that I know around here, even if they wanted to go, could not afford to go. It would cost them a hundred to a hundred and fifty dollars to go out there and stay for 5 days and come back.”
They said, “Well, we will pay that.”
I said, “How can you pay it? You are disabled soldiers. How do you get the money to do that?”
