W Did you talk about it? You and your friends?
E I don’t really remember. Yes, probably.
W Didn’t you all think it was odd that Winnie danced such a lot with just one teacher?
E I don’t remember.
W Why don’t you remember?
E I don’t know. I suppose I was a bit drunk. It was a bit of a blur.
W Let’s move on to what happened later on in the evening. Can you tell us a bit about that?
E We went down to the beach again, after the disco was over.
W We?
E A group of us. Eight or ten.
W Was Winnie Maas with you?
E Yes.
W What did you do?
E Nothing special.
W Nothing special?
E No.
W But you must have done something?
E I suppose so.
W What, for instance.
E What the hell do you want me to say? That we drank, smoked, did some necking?
W Is that what you did in fact?
E I suppose so. Chatted as well. One of the lads did some skinny-dipping.
W Really? Did you talk to Winnie at all?
E I don’t think so. Not especially. For Christ’s sake, we were all together.
W You didn’t talk about her dancing so much with Arnold Maager?
E I suppose we did.
W Do you recall anything she said?
E Yes, one thing.
W What?
E She said Maager really turned her on.
W Maager really turned her on? You’re sure about that? That Winnie Maas said that?
E Yes.
W Did you believe her?
E Why shouldn’t I? Why shouldn’t she get turned on by whoever she wanted?
W All right. What did you do after you’d been on the beach?
E We went back up to town again.
W Winnie Maas as well?
E Of course. For God’s sake. .
W Go on.
E Somebody had heard that they were all at Gollum’s house, having a party.
W Who’s Gollum?
E Our handicrafts teacher. His real name is Gollumsen.
W Who exactly were partying at his house?
E All the ones who’d been supervising the disco.
W The teachers.
E Yes.
W Including Maager?
E Yes, including Maager.
W And you knew that those teachers were going to be at Gollumsen’s house?
E Yes.
W How?
E I don’t know. Somebody had heard about it.
W Somebody?
E I don’t know who, for God’s sake.
W Was it Winnie Maas who knew?
E Could have been.
W But it could have been somebody else?
E /No answer/
W Okay, tell us what happened when you got to Gollumsen’s place.
E They were sitting around and singing. They were all pretty drunk. Songs from the sixties. We rang the doorbell and they let us in.
W How many teachers were they?
E Four.
W Four?
E Yes. Gollum and Maager, and two others.
W Which two others?
E One is called Nielsen. And the other was Cruickshank.
W And how many pupils were you?
E Seven. But two left quite soon.
W But you and Winnie stayed on?
E Yes.
W Who were the other three?
E Tim Van Rippe and Christopher Duijkert and Vera Sauger.
W So, five pupils and four teachers. What time was it when you got there, roughly?
E Two o’clock, half past, somewhere around then.
W And what did you do at Gollumsen’s house?
E We had a few drinks, and sang songs — Nielsen played the guitar.
W Go on. What happened between Arnold Maager and Winnie Maas?
E They sat necking for a while. Then they disappeared into the bedroom.
W And what did the rest of you do?
E The rest of us?
W Yes. What did the rest of you do after Winnie Maas and Arnold Maager had disappeared into the bedroom?
E We sat around and sang and chatted.
W For how long?
E I don’t know. An hour, maybe.
W And then you left the flat?
E Yes.
W Were Winnie Maas and Arnold Maager still in the bedroom when you left?
E Yes. Unless they’d jumped out through the window — but I don’t think so.
W Why don’t you think so?
E Because it’s on the second floor.
W I see. Anyway, did you discover what they were doing in the bedroom?
E Yes.
W How? And when?
