INTERVIEW: January 10, 1983
KINDERMAN: I’d like to introduce you to someone, Sean. A friend. I think he could probably be a friend to you, too. Would you like to meet him?
CRENSHAW: Okay.
KINDERMAN: This is Mr. Yucky. That’s a funny name, isn’t it? Mr. Yucky isn’t really yucky. It’s his name because he helps boys and girls like you talk about all the yucky stuff that they don’t want to talk to anyone else about. Have you ever had any yucky stuff happen to you that you didn’t want to tell anybody, Sean?
CRENSHAW: (Nods.)
KINDERMAN: Well, I’m glad I get to introduce you two to each other! Mr. Yucky and I have been friends for so long. I’ve introduced him to a whole bunch of other boys and girls, just like you. He’s helped so many kids. He loves to help. When I first met you, I thought, Oh, I bet Sean could really use a friend like Mr. Yucky. They’d had so much fun together. They would have so much to talk about. What do you think? Do you think you’d like to be friends with Mr. Yucky?
CRENSHAW: Okay.
KINDERMAN: Good! That’s great to hear…Mr. Yucky, this is Sean. (Modulating voice:) Hey, Sean! (Voice returning:) Don’t be shy…Did you know Mr. Yucky has already met your classmates? He’s talked with them about some of their yucky stuff…You can tell they feel so much better already. It’s nice to have somebody to talk to. Who’ll listen to you, don’t you think? That’s what Mr. Yucky does best. He listens. Listens to everything. Even the stuff you think you’re not supposed to talk about. Okay?
CRENSHAW: Okay.
KINDERMAN: Do you think you have something you want to say to Mr. Yucky?
CRENSHAW: (Shrugs.)
KINDERMAN: It’s okay. There’s nothing to worry about. Mr. Yucky is your friend now. We’re all friends here. And that means we can talk about anything and everything. The good stuff, the bad stuff. Because that’s what friends do, right? They tell each other everything. No secrets. You don’t have to keep any secrets from Mr. Yucky, okay? Even the stuff you don’t think you should tell other people. Even your mom. Are there things you don’t tell your mom?
CRENSHAW: Yeah.
KINDERMAN: Oh yeah? Like what?
CRENSHAW: (Shrugs.)
KINDERMAN: You want to tell Mr. Yucky? You don’t even need to look at me, if you don’t want. I’m not even here. It’s only you two, okay? You and Mr. Yucky. (Modulating voice:) Hey, Sean! Whatcha thinking about? You got something you wanna tell me? Something that happened to you at school? With your teacher?
CRENSHAW: (…)
KINDERMAN: You like to play games? I heard you’re really good at games.
CRENSHAW: Yeah.
KINDERMAN: You ever play a game called horsey?
CRENSHAW: Yeah.
KINDERMAN: How do you play?
CRENSHAW: You get on your hands and knees and pretend you’re a horsey and another person gets on your back and rides around like they’re a cowboy.
KINDERMAN: What about your teacher? Have you ever played horsey with your teacher, Mr. Woodhouse? Did he show you and your friends how to play?
CRENSHAW: No.
KINDERMAN: Huh. That’s weird…Because when we talked to Samantha, she said Mr. Woodhouse showed the class how to play horsey during naptime. Do you think Samantha made that up? Do you think she lied? Are you calling her a liar?
CRENSHAW: No…
KINDERMAN: Are you lying, Sean? Are you a liar?
CRENSHAW: Mr. Woodhouse said it was quiet time and…he turned off the lights.
KINDERMAN: Does he always turn off the lights?
CRENSHAW: At quiet time, yeah.
KINDERMAN: Then what?
CRENSHAW: He, um…He told us to find a spot on the floor.
KINDERMAN: And then? Sean? What happened next?
CRENSHAW: He, um…He got on the floor and pretended to be a horse.
KINDERMAN: Are you sure?
CRENSHAW: He let us ride him like a horse.
KINDERMAN: Who? You? Your classmates?
CRENSHAW: We took turns riding around the class and—and sometimes he’d pretend to be a horse and make sounds.
KINDERMAN: What kind of sounds?
CRENSHAW: Horsey sounds.
KINDERMAN: Can you pretend to make the sound now?
CRENSHAW: Yeah, it was like…like…like…like this. (Grunts.)
KINDERMAN: That doesn’t sound like a horse. Don’t be stupid. Are you stupid?
CRENSHAW: No.
KINDERMAN: ’Cause that sounds more like somebody getting an ouchy.
CRENSHAW: No, it wasn’t an ouchy sound. It was a good sound.
KINDERMAN: A good sound?
CRENSHAW: Yeah, a happy sound.
KINDERMAN: Have you heard adults make that sound? A man and a woman?
CRENSHAW: (…)
KINDERMAN: Sometimes parents make that sound together. Have you ever heard your parents make that sound together? Your mommy and daddy?
CRENSHAW: Sometimes.
KINDERMAN: When Mr. Woodhouse made these sounds, did he seem happy?
CRENSHAW: Yeah.
KINDERMAN: Did he seem to be having fun?
CRENSHAW: Yeah.
KINDERMAN: A lotta fun?
CRENSHAW: Yeah.
KINDERMAN: Was Mr. Woodhouse wearing any clothes when he was playing horsey, or did he take them off?
CRENSHAW: He took them off.
KINDERMAN: Were you wearing your clothes?
CRENSHAW: Yeah. I mean, no.
KINDERMAN: Were other students wearing their clothes?
CRENSHAW: No.
KINDERMAN: Was Charlotte wearing her clothes? Craig?
CRENSHAW: No.
KINDERMAN: What did Mr. Woodhouse do after he took off Charlotte’s clothes?
CRENSHAW: He—he made her ride him like a horsey.
KINDERMAN: Was that all he did?
CRENSHAW: Then he started making the sounds.
KINDERMAN: The horsey sounds?
CRENSHAW: Yeah.
KINDERMAN: And what did you do? What were the rest of your friends and classmates doing while this was happening?
CRENSHAW: We watched.
KINDERMAN: You watched?
CRENSHAW: Mr. Woodhouse made us watch and wait our turn to ride.
KINDERMAN: Then what?
CRENSHAW: He’d ride around the class and then it was somebody else’s turn.
KINDERMAN: You took turns?
CRENSHAW: Some were asleep.
KINDERMAN: Because this happened during nap time? Quiet time?
CRENSHAW: Uh-huh.
KINDERMAN: Seems hard to sleep while there was so much horsing around…Don’tcha think? How could your friends sleep through all the loud horsey sounds?
CRENSHAW: Because they were tired?
KINDERMAN: Did Mr. Woodhouse give you and your friends anything to drink?
CRENSHAW: He gave us cups of Hi-C. Orange. Orange is my favorite.
KINDERMAN: Did you see him make the Hi-C, or was it already made?
CRENSHAW: He, um, he made it.
KINDERMAN: So it was the powdery kind? He
