use; and though some were accounted fierce and cruel, yet did they exercise their cruelty upon other creatures, for the most part, to no other end, but to get themselves food, and to satisfy their natural appetite; but certainly, said they, you men are more cruel to one another, than evil spirits are to you; and as for their habitations in desolate places, we having no communion with them, can give you no certain account thereof. But what do you think, said the Empress, of good spirits? may not they be compared to the fowls of the air? They answered, there were many cruel and ravenous fowls as well in the air, as there were fierce and cruel beasts on earth; so that the good are always mixed with the bad. She asked further, whether the fiery vehicles were a Heaven, or a Hell, or at least a Purgatory to the souls? They answered, that if the souls were immaterial, they could not burn, and then fire would do them no harm; and though Hell was believed to be an undecaying and unquenchable fire, yet Heaven was no fire. The Empress replied, that Heaven was a light. Yes, said they, but not a fiery light. Then she asked, whether the different shapes and sorts of vehicles, made the souls and other immaterial spirits, miserable, or blessed? The vehicles, answered they, make them neither better, nor worse; for though some vehicles sometimes may have power over others, yet these by turns may get some power again over them, according to the several advantages and disadvantages of particular natural parts. The Empress asked further, whether animal life came out of the spiritual world, and did return thither again? The spirits answered, they could not exactly tell; but if it were so, then certainly animal lives must leave their bodies behind them, otherwise the bodies would make the spiritual world a mixed world, that is, partly material, and partly immaterial; but the truth is, said they, spirits being immaterial, cannot properly make a world; for a world belongs to material, not to immaterial creatures. If this be so, replied the Empress, then certainly there can be no world of lives and forms without matter? No, answered the spirits; nor a world of matter without lives and forms; for natural lives and forms cannot be immaterial, no more than matter can be immovable. And therefore natural lives, forms and matter, are inseparable. Then the Empress asked, whether the first man did feed on the best sorts of the fruits of the earth, and the beasts on the worst? The spirits answered, that unless the beasts of the field were barred out of manured fields and gardens, they would pick and choose the best fruits as well as men; and you may plainly observe it, said they, in squirrels and monkeys, how they are the best choosers of nuts and apples; and how birds do pick and feed on the most delicious fruits, and worms on the best roots, and most savoury herbs; by which you may see, that those creatures live and feed better than men do, except you will say, that artificial cookery is better and more wholesome than the natural. Again, the Empress asked, whether the first man gave names to all the several sorts of fishes in the sea, and fresh waters? No, answered the spirits, for he was an earthly, and not a watery creature; and therefore could not know the several sorts of fishes. Why, replied the Empress, he was no more an airy creature than he was a watery one, and yet he gave names to the several sorts of fowls and birds of the air. Fowls, answered they, are partly airy, and partly earthly creatures, not only because they resemble beasts and men in their flesh, but because their rest and dwelling places are on earth; for they build their nests, lay their eggs, and hatch their young, not in the air, but on the earth. Then she asked, whether the first man did give names to all the various sorts of creatures that live on the earth? Yes, answered they, to all those that were presented to him, or he had knowledge of, that is, to all the prime sorts; but not to every particular: for of mankind, said they, there were but two at first; and as they did increase, so did their names. But, said the Empress, who gave the names to the several sorts of fish? The posterity of mankind, answered they. Then she enquired, whether there were no more kinds of creatures now, than at the first creation? They answered, that there were no more nor fewer kinds of creatures than there are now; but there are, without question, more particular sorts of creatures now, than there were then. She asked again, whether all those creatures that were in Paradise, were also in Noah’s Ark? They answered, that the principal kinds had been there, but not all the particulars. Then she would fain know, how it came, that both spirits and men did fall from a blessed into so miserable a state and condition as they are now in. The spirits answered, by disobedience. The Empress asked, whence this disobedient sin did proceed? But the spirits desired the Empress not to ask them any such questions, because they went beyond their knowledge. Then she begged the spirits to pardon her presumption; for, said she, it is the nature of mankind to be inquisitive. Natural desire of knowledge, answered the spirits, is not blameable, so you do not go beyond what your natural reason can comprehend. Then I’ll ask no more, said the Empress, for fear I should commit some error; but one thing I cannot but acquaint you withal: What is that, said the spirits? I have a great desire, answered the Empress, to make a Cabbala. What kind of Cabbala, asked the spirits? The Empress answered, the Jews’ Cabbala. No sooner
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