Dialogues

state of weakness? Cleinias Yes, all that is well known. Athenian Also that they go of their own accord for the sake of the subsequent benefit? Cleinias Very good. Athenian And we may conceive this to be true in the same way of other practices? Cleinias Certainly. Athenian And the same view may be taken of the pastime of drinking wine, if we are right in supposing that the same good effect follows? Cleinias To be sure. Athenian If such convivialities should turn out to have any advantage equal in importance to that of gymnastic, they are in their very nature to be preferred to mere bodily exercise, inasmuch as they have no accompaniment of pain. Cleinias True; but I hardly think that we shall be able to discover any such benefits to be derived from them. Athenian That is just what we must endeavour to show. And let me ask you a question:⁠—Do we not distinguish two kinds of fear, which are very different? Cleinias What are they? Athenian There is the fear of expected evil. Cleinias Yes. Athenian And there is the fear of an evil reputation; we are afraid of being thought evil, because we do or say some dishonourable thing, which fear we and all men term shame. Cleinias Certainly. Athenian These are the two fears, as I called them; one of which is the opposite of pain and other fears, and the opposite also of the greatest and most numerous sort of pleasures. Cleinias Very true. Athenian And does not the legislator and everyone who is good for anything, hold this fear in the greatest honour? This is what he terms reverence, and the confidence which is the reverse of this he terms insolence; and the latter he always deems to be a very great evil both to individuals and to states. Cleinias True. Athenian Does not this kind of fear preserve us in many important ways? What is there which so surely gives victory and safety in war? For there are two things which give victory⁠—confidence before enemies, and fear of disgrace before friends. Cleinias There are. Athenian Then each of us should be fearless and also fearful; and why we should be either has now been determined. Cleinias Certainly. Athenian And when we want to make anyone fearless, we and the law bring him face to face with many fears. Cleinias Clearly. Athenian And when we want to make him rightly fearful, must we not introduce him to shameless pleasures, and train him to take up arms against them, and to overcome them? Or does this principle apply to courage only, and must he who would be perfect in valour fight against and overcome his own natural character⁠—since if he be unpractised and inexperienced in such conflicts, he will not be half the man which he might have been⁠—and are we to suppose, that with temperance it is otherwise, and that he who has never fought with the shameless and unrighteous temptations of his pleasures and lusts, and conquered them, in earnest and in play, by word, deed, and act, will still be perfectly temperate? Cleinias A most unlikely supposition. Athenian Suppose that some God had given a fear-potion to men, and that the more a man drank of this the more he regarded himself at every draught as a child of misfortune, and that he feared everything happening or about to happen to him; and that at last the most courageous of men utterly lost his presence of mind for a time, and only came to himself again when he had slept off the influence of the draught. Cleinias But has such a draught, Stranger, ever really been known among men? Athenian No; but, if there had been, might not such a draught have been of use to the legislator as a test of courage? Might we not go and say to him, “O legislator, whether you are legislating for the Cretan, or for any other state, would you not like to have a touchstone of the courage and cowardice of your citizens?” Cleinias “I should,” will be the answer of everyone. Athenian “And you would rather have a touchstone in which there is no risk and no great danger than the reverse?” Cleinias In that proposition everyone may safely agree. Athenian “And in order to make use of the draught, you would lead them amid these imaginary terrors, and prove them, when the affection of fear was working upon them, and compel them to be fearless, exhorting and admonishing them; and also honouring them, but dishonouring anyone who will not be persuaded by you to be in all respects such as you command him; and if he underwent the trial well and manfully, you would let him go unscathed; but if ill, you would inflict a punishment upon him? Or would you abstain from using the potion altogether, although you have no reason for abstaining?” Cleinias He would be certain, Stranger, to use the potion. Athenian This would be a mode of testing and training which would be wonderfully easy in comparison with those now in use, and might be applied to a single person, or to a few, or indeed to any number; and he would do well who provided himself with the potion only, rather than with any number of other things, whether he preferred to be by himself in solitude, and there contend with his fears, because he was ashamed to be seen by the eye of man until he was perfect; or trusting to the force of his own nature and habits, and believing that he had been already disciplined sufficiently, he did not hesitate to train himself in company with any number of others, and display his power in conquering the irresistible change effected by the draught⁠—his virtue being such, that he never in any instance fell into any great unseemliness, but was always himself, and left off before he arrived at the last cup, fearing that he, like all other men, might be overcome by the potion. Cleinias Yes, Stranger, in that last case, too, he might equally show his self-control. Athenian Let us return to the lawgiver, and