Dialogues

other, by customs and praises and words, that just and unjust are shadows only, and that injustice, which seems opposed to justice, when contemplated by the unjust and evil man appears pleasant and the just most unpleasant; but that from the just man’s point of view, the very opposite is the appearance of both of them. Cleinias True. Athenian And which may be supposed to be the truer judgment⁠—that of the inferior or of the better soul? Cleinias Surely, that of the better soul. Athenian Then the unjust life must not only be more base and depraved, but also more unpleasant than the just and holy life? Cleinias That seems to be implied in the present argument. Athenian And even supposing this were otherwise, and not as the argument has proven, still the lawgiver, who is worth anything, if he ever ventures to tell a lie to the young for their good, could not invent a more useful lie than this, or one which will have a better effect in making them do what is right, not on compulsion but voluntarily. Cleinias Truth, Stranger, is a noble thing and a lasting, but a thing of which men are hard to be persuaded. Athenian And yet the story of the Sidonian Cadmus, which is so improbable, has been readily believed, and also innumerable other tales. Cleinias What is that story? Athenian The story of armed men springing up after the sowing of teeth, which the legislator may take as a proof that he can persuade the minds of the young of anything; so that he has only to reflect and find out what belief will be of the greatest public advantage, and then use all his efforts to make the whole community utter one and the same word in their songs and tales and discourses all their life long. But if you do not agree with me, there is no reason why you should not argue on the other side. Cleinias I do not see that any argument can fairly be raised by either of us against what you are now saying. Athenian The next suggestion which I have to offer is, that all our three choruses shall sing to the young and tender souls of children, reciting in their strains all the noble thoughts of which we have already spoken, or are about to speak; and the sum of them shall be, that the life which is by the Gods deemed to be the happiest is also the best;⁠—we shall affirm this to be a most certain truth; and the minds of our young disciples will be more likely to receive these words of ours than any others which we might address to them. Cleinias I assent to what you say. Athenian First will enter in their natural order the sacred choir composed of children, which is to sing lustily the heaven-taught lay to the whole city. Next will follow the choir of young men under the age of thirty, who will call upon the God Paean to testify to the truth of their words, and will pray him to be gracious to the youth and to turn their hearts. Thirdly, the choir of elder men, who are from thirty to sixty years of age, will also sing. There remain those who are too old to sing, and they will tell stories, illustrating the same virtues, as with the voice of an oracle. Cleinias Who are those who compose the third choir, Stranger? for I do not clearly understand what you mean to say about them. Athenian And yet almost all that I have been saying has been said with a view to them. Cleinias Will you try to be a little plainer? Athenian I was speaking at the commencement of our discourse, as you will remember, of the fiery nature of young creatures: I said that they were unable to keep quiet either in limb or voice, and that they called out and jumped about in a disorderly manner; and that no other animal attained to any perception of order, but man only. Now the order of motion is called rhythm, and the order of the voice, in which high and low are duly mingled, is called harmony; and both together are termed choric song. And I said that the Gods had pity on us, and gave us Apollo and the Muses to be our playfellows and leaders in the dance; and Dionysus, as I dare say that you will remember, was the third. Cleinias I quite remember. Athenian Thus far I have spoken of the chorus of Apollo and the Muses, and I have still to speak of the remaining chorus, which is that of Dionysus. Cleinias How is that arranged? There is something strange, at any rate on first hearing, in a Dionysiac chorus of old men, if you really mean that those who are above thirty, and may be fifty, or from fifty to sixty years of age, are to dance in his honour. Athenian Very true; and therefore it must be shown that there is good reason for the proposal. Cleinias Certainly. Athenian Are we agreed thus far? Cleinias About what? Athenian That every man and boy, slave and free, both sexes, and the whole city, should never cease charming themselves with the strains of which we have spoken; and that there should be every sort of change and variation of them in order to take away the effect of sameness, so that the singers may always receive pleasure from their hymns, and may never weary of them? Cleinias Everyone will agree. Athenian Where, then, will that best part of our city which, by reason of age and intelligence, has the greatest influence, sing these fairest of strains, which are to do so much good? Shall we be so foolish as to let them off who would give us the most beautiful and also the most useful of songs? Cleinias But, says the argument, we cannot let them off. Athenian Then how can we carry out our purpose with decorum? Will this be the way? Cleinias What? Athenian When a man is