Dialogues

to follow, has been, and will be said, with the intention of explaining what need the men of that time had of laws, and who was their lawgiver. Cleinias And thus far what you have said has been very well said. Athenian They could hardly have wanted lawgivers as yet; nothing of that sort was likely to have existed in their days, for they had no letters at this early period; they lived by habit and the customs of their ancestors, as they are called. Cleinias Probably. Athenian

But there was already existing a form of government which, if I am not mistaken, is generally termed a lordship, and this still remains in many places, both among Hellenes and barbarians,372 and is the government which is declared by Homer to have prevailed among the Cyclopes:⁠—

“They have neither councils nor judgments, but they dwell in hollow caves on the tops of high mountains, and everyone gives law to his wife and children, and they do not busy themselves about one another.”373

Cleinias That seems to be a charming poet of yours; I have read some other verses of his, which are very clever; but I do not know much of him, for foreign poets are very little read among the Cretans. Megillus But they are in Lacedaemon, and he appears to be the prince of them all; the manner of life, however, which he describes is not Spartan, but rather Ionian, and he seems quite to confirm what you are saying, when he traces up the ancient state of mankind by the help of tradition to barbarism. Athenian Yes, he does confirm it; and we may accept his witness to the fact that such forms of government sometimes arise. Cleinias We may. Athenian And were not such states composed of men who had been dispersed in single habitations and families by the poverty which attended the devastations; and did not the eldest then rule among them, because with them government originated in the authority of a father and a mother, whom, like a flock of birds, they followed, forming one troop under the patriarchal rule and sovereignty of their parents, which of all sovereignties is the most just? Cleinias Very true. Athenian After this they came together in greater numbers, and increased the size of their cities, and betook themselves to husbandry, first of all at the foot of the mountains, and made enclosures of loose walls and works of defence, in order to keep off wild beasts; thus creating a single large and common habitation. Cleinias Yes; at least we may suppose so. Athenian There is another thing which would probably happen. Cleinias What? Athenian When these larger habitations grew up out of the lesser original ones, each of the lesser ones would survive in the larger; every family would be under the rule of the eldest, and, owing to their separation from one another, would have peculiar customs in things divine and human, which they would have received from their several parents who had educated them; and these customs would incline them to order, when the parents had the element of order in their nature, and to courage, when they had the element of courage. And they would naturally stamp upon their children, and upon their children’s children, their own likings;374 and, as we are saying, they would find their way into the larger society, having already their own peculiar laws. Cleinias Certainly. Athenian And every man surely likes his own laws best, and the laws of others not so well. Cleinias True. Athenian Then now we seem to have stumbled upon the beginnings of legislation. Cleinias Exactly. Athenian The next step will be that these persons who have met together, will select some arbiters, who will review the laws of all of them, and will publicly present such as they approve to the chiefs who lead the tribes, and who are in a manner their kings, allowing them to choose those which they think best. These persons will themselves be called legislators, and will appoint the magistrates, framing some sort of aristocracy, or perhaps monarchy, out of the dynasties or lordships, and in this altered state of the government they will live. Cleinias Yes, that would be the natural order of things. Athenian Then, now let us speak of a third form of government, in which all other forms and conditions of polities and cities concur. Cleinias What is that? Athenian

The form which in fact Homer indicates as following the second. This third form arose when, as he says, Dardanus founded Dardania:⁠—

“For not as yet had the holy Ilium been built on the plain to be a city of speaking men; but they were still dwelling at the foot of many-fountained Ida.”375

For indeed, in these verses, and in what he said of the Cyclopes, he speaks the words of God and nature; for poets are a divine race,376 and often in their strains, by the aid of the Muses and the Graces, they attain truth.

Cleinias Yes. Athenian Then now let us proceed with the rest of our tale, which will probably be found to illustrate in some degree our proposed design:⁠—Shall we do so? Cleinias By all means. Athenian Ilium was built, when they descended from the mountain, in a large and fair plain, on a sort of low hill, watered by many rivers descending from Ida. Cleinias Such is the tradition. Athenian And we must suppose this event to have taken place many ages after the deluge? Athenian A marvellous forgetfulness of the former destruction would appear to have come over them, when they placed their town right under numerous streams flowing from the heights, trusting for their security to not very high hills, either. Cleinias There must have been a long interval, clearly. Athenian And, as population increased, many other cities would begin to be inhabited. Cleinias Doubtless. Athenian Those cities made war against Troy⁠—by sea as well as land⁠—for at that time men were ceasing to be afraid of the sea. Cleinias Clearly. Athenian The Achaeans remained ten years, and overthrew Troy.