Dialogues

epub:type="z3998:persona">Cleinias True. Athenian And during the ten years in which the Achaeans were besieging Ilium, the homes of the besiegers were falling into an evil plight. Their youth revolted; and when the soldiers returned to their own cities and families, they did not receive them properly, and as they ought to have done, and numerous deaths, murders, exiles, were the consequence. The exiles came again, under a new name, no longer Achaeans, but Dorians⁠—a name which they derived from Dorieus; for it was he who gathered them together. The rest of the story is told by you Lacedaemonians as part of the history of Sparta. Megillus To be sure. Athenian Thus, after digressing from the original subject of laws into music and drinking-bouts, the argument has, providentially, come back to the same point, and presents to us another handle. For we have reached the settlement of Lacedaemon; which, as you truly say, is in laws and in institutions the sister of Crete. And we are all the better for the digression, because we have gone through various governments and settlements, and have been present at the foundation of a first, second, and third state, succeeding one another in infinite time. And now there appears on the horizon a fourth state or nation which was once in process of settlement and has continued settled to this day. If, out of all this, we are able to discern what is well or ill settled, and what laws are the salvation and what are the destruction of cities, and what changes would make a state happy, O Megillus and Cleinias, we may now begin again, unless we have some fault to find with the previous discussion. Megillus If some God, Stranger, would promise us that our new enquiry about legislation would be as good and full as the present, I would go a great way to hear such another, and would think that a day as long as this⁠—and we are now approaching the longest day of the year⁠—was too short for the discussion. Athenian Then I suppose that we must consider this subject? Megillus Certainly. Athenian Let us place ourselves in thought at the moment when Lacedaemon and Argos and Messene and the rest of the Peloponnesus were all in complete subjection, Megillus, to your ancestors; for afterwards, as the legend informs us, they divided their army into three portions, and settled three cities, Argos, Messene, Lacedaemon. Megillus True. Athenian Temenus was the king of Argos, Cresphontes of Messene, Procles and Eurysthenes of Lacedaemon. Megillus Certainly. Athenian To these kings all the men of that day made oath that they would assist them, if anyone subverted their kingdom. Megillus True. Athenian But can a kingship be destroyed, or was any other form of government ever destroyed, by any but the rulers themselves? No indeed, by Zeus. Have we already forgotten what was said a little while ago?377 Megillus No. Athenian And may we not now further confirm what was then mentioned? For we have come upon facts which have brought us back again to the same principle; so that, in resuming the discussion, we shall not be enquiring about an empty theory, but about events which actually happened. The case was as follows:⁠—Three royal heroes made oath to three cities which were under a kingly government, and the cities to the kings, that both rulers and subjects should govern and be governed according to the laws which were common to all of them: the rulers promised that as time and the race went forward they would not make their rule more arbitrary; and the subjects said that, if the rulers observed these conditions, they would never subvert or permit others to subvert those kingdoms; the kings were to assist kings and peoples when injured, and the peoples were to assist peoples and kings in like manner. Is not this the fact? Megillus Yes. Athenian And the three states to whom these laws were given, whether their kings or any others were the authors of them, had therefore the greatest security for the maintenance of their constitutions? Megillus What security? Athenian That the other two states were always to come to the rescue against a rebellious third. Megillus True. Athenian Many persons say that legislators ought to impose such laws as the mass of the people will be ready to receive; but this is just as if one were to command gymnastic masters or physicians to treat or cure their pupils or patients in an agreeable manner. Megillus Exactly. Athenian Whereas the physician may often be too happy if he can restore health, and make the body whole, without any very great infliction of pain. Megillus Certainly. Athenian There was also another advantage possessed by the men of that day, which greatly lightened the task of passing laws.378 Megillus What advantage? Athenian The legislators of that day, when they equalized property, escaped the great accusation which generally arises in legislation, if a person attempts to disturb the possession of land, or to abolish debts, because he sees that without this reform there can never be any real equality. Now, in general, when the legislator attempts to make a new settlement of such matters, everyone meets him with the cry, that “he is not to disturb vested interests,”⁠—declaring with imprecations that he is introducing agrarian laws and cancelling of debts, until a man is at his wits’ end; whereas no one could quarrel with the Dorians for distributing the land⁠—there was nothing to hinder them; and as for debts, they had none which were considerable or of old standing. Megillus Very true. Athenian But then, my good friends, why did the settlement and legislation of their country turn out so badly? Megillus How do you mean; and why do you blame them? Athenian There were three kingdoms, and of these, two quickly corrupted their original constitution and laws, and the only one which remained was the Spartan. Megillus The question which you ask is not easily answered. Athenian And yet must be answered when we are enquiring about laws, this being our old man’s sober game of