Dialogues

the others alone are left for us, the principle of law and the absence of law will bisect them all. Young Socrates That would seem to follow, from what has been said. Stranger Then monarchy, when bound by good prescriptions or laws, is the best of all the six, and when lawless is the most bitter and oppressive to the subject. Young Socrates True. Stranger The government of the few, which is intermediate between that of the one and many, is also intermediate in good and evil; but the government of the many is in every respect weak and unable to do either any great good or any great evil, when compared with the others, because the offices are too minutely subdivided and too many hold them. And this therefore is the worst of all lawful governments, and the best of all lawless ones. If they are all without the restraints of law, democracy is the form in which to live is best; if they are well ordered, then this is the last which you should choose, as royalty, the first form, is the best, with the exception of the seventh, for that excels them all, and is among States what God is among men. Young Socrates You are quite right, and we should choose that above all. Stranger The members of all these States, with the exception of the one which has knowledge, may be set aside as being not Statesmen but partisans⁠—upholders of the most monstrous idols, and themselves idols; and, being the greatest imitators and magicians, they are also the greatest of Sophists. Young Socrates The name of Sophist after many windings in the argument appears to have been most justly fixed upon the politicians, as they are termed. Stranger And so our satyric drama has been played out; and the troop of Centaurs and Satyrs, however unwilling to leave the stage, have at last been separated from the political science. Young Socrates So I perceive. Stranger There remain, however, natures still more troublesome, because they are more nearly akin to the king, and more difficult to discern; the examination of them may be compared to the process of refining gold. Young Socrates What is your meaning? Stranger The workmen begin by sifting away the earth and stones and the like; there remain in a confused mass the valuable elements akin to gold, which can only be separated by fire⁠—copper, silver, and other precious metal; these are at last refined away by the use of tests, until the gold is left quite pure. Young Socrates Yes, that is the way in which these things are said to be done. Stranger In like manner, all alien and uncongenial matter has been separated from political science, and what is precious and of a kindred nature has been left; there remain the nobler arts of the general and the judge, and the higher sort of oratory which is an ally of the royal art, and persuades men to do justice, and assists in guiding the helm of States:⁠—How can we best clear away all these, leaving him whom we seek alone and unalloyed? Young Socrates That is obviously what has in some way to be attempted. Stranger If the attempt is all that is wanting, he shall certainly be brought to light; and I think that the illustration of music may assist in exhibiting him. Please to answer me a question. Young Socrates What question? Stranger There is such a thing as learning music or handicraft arts in general? Young Socrates There is. Stranger And is there any higher art or science, having power to decide which of these arts are and are not to be learned;⁠—what do you say? Young Socrates I should answer that there is. Stranger And do we acknowledge this science to be different from the others? Young Socrates Yes. Stranger And ought the other sciences to be superior to this, or no single science to any other? Or ought this science to be the overseer and governor of all the others? Young Socrates The latter. Stranger You mean to say that the science which judges whether we ought to learn or not, must be superior to the science which is learned or which teaches? Young Socrates Far superior. Stranger And the science which determines whether we ought to persuade or not, must be superior to the science which is able to persuade? Young Socrates Of course. Stranger Very good; and to what science do we assign the power of persuading a multitude by a pleasing tale and not by teaching? Young Socrates That power, I think, must clearly be assigned to rhetoric. Stranger And to what science do we give the power of determining whether we are to employ persuasion or force towards anyone, or to refrain altogether? Young Socrates To that science which governs the arts of speech and persuasion. Stranger Which, if I am not mistaken, will be politics? Young Socrates Very good. Stranger Rhetoric seems to be quickly distinguished from politics, being a different species, yet ministering to it. Young Socrates Yes. Stranger But what would you think of another sort of power or science? Young Socrates What science? Stranger The science which has to do with military operations against our enemies⁠—is that to be regarded as a science or not? Young Socrates How can generalship and military tactics be regarded as other than a science? Stranger And is the art which is able and knows how to advise when we are to go to war, or to make peace, the same as this or different? Young Socrates If we are to be consistent, we must say different. Stranger And we must also suppose that this rules the other, if we are not to give up our former notion? Young Socrates True. Stranger And, considering how great and terrible the whole art of war is, can we imagine any which is superior to it but the truly royal? Young Socrates No other. Stranger The art of the general is only ministerial, and therefore not political? Young Socrates Exactly. Stranger Once more let us consider the nature of the righteous judge. Young Socrates Very good. Stranger Does he do anything but decide the dealings of men with one another to be just